Robert McHugh speaks to Noel Anderson about Grand Slam Bars and the secret behind its success.
There is no doubt that the last eighteen months have been very tough on the bar trade, where it seems that pubs are closing a lot faster than they are opening.
One exception to this trend is Grand Slam Bars owned by Noel Anderson, former Chair of the Licensed Vintners Association (LVA), along with former Irish international rugby players Jamie Heaslip, Dave Kearney, Rob Kearney and Sean O’Brien.
Earlier this summer, the team behind Lemon & Duke and The Bridge 1859 purchased McSorley’s in Ranelagh for a sum of €5.5 million. This comes after a number of successful purchases in recent years such as Little Lemon in the Royal Hibernian Way in 2023 and the Three Tun Tavern pub in Blackrock in 2022.
Noel Anderson spoke to Hospitality Ireland recently about the secret behind the group's success and what his plans are for the future.
What was the thinking behind the group's new name Grand Slam Bars?
Ah, well, we use a guy called Jimmy Healy, and he does a bit of PR for us and the Licensed Vintners Association as well, and he asked us if we had thought about a group name.
A lot of my staff were actually looking for us to have a group structure and a group name. We wanted to address the whole rugby connection and a couple of the lads have won the Grand Slam, obviously!!
We eventually decided we'll go for it and that was it. We just thought Grand Slam Bars had a nice ring to it.
Tell us more about the rugby connection and your own specific connection to the sport.
Absolutely nothing, absolutely nothing. When I started off, I had the Grafton Lounge on my own when I was in my mid-to-late 20s.
Rob Kearney frequented the Grafton Lounge at the time, he had picked up a bad injury. The manager who worked with me told me that Rob Kearney had been in and expressed an interest in getting involved in a pub some day.
At the time, I was saving to buy a pub, it was in the middle of the recession. It occurred to me if I could buy a pub with a couple of rugby players around Ballsbridge, near the Aviva or RDS, it would be a great business idea. That is how it came about.
I met Rob and we looked at Russell's in Ranelagh initially. That shows our early interest in Ranelagh! That was going for too much money at the time, we didn't have it.
Bellami's came up and I thought that sounded good. I met Rob and he liked it and then we met with Jamie Heaslip in the pub itself and we discussed it and they thought it would be great if we got one or two other lads involved and the rest is history.
What year did this occur?
The Bridge is ten years old on September 25. I would say that conversation happened 11 years ago.
What was the industry like at that time?
It was tough. I dropped out of College when I was 17 and became an apprentice barman working for the Flynn's. I worked for Richmond Marketing for a year as well, mainly in business development.
I took the lease of the old Grafton Lounge on my own in the middle of a recession. It was very tough but I saw opportunity in it. We expanded the Grafton Lounge and extended the premises. It took off which helped create an opportunity to buy the Bridge and save money to buy a premises.
I always liked the idea of buying low in the market. We were able to buy the Bridge pretty low, it was on the market for €725,000 which was really low. I think we ended up buying it for €1.3 million or something like that. Looking back on that now, it's small money.
Fast forward to the Blackrock, we were able to buy that during Covid. We looked around for these sort of opportunities.
You mentioned earlier that Ranelagh held special significance for you. Why so?
Special is the word. I think Ranelagh is special. Rob lives down the road. Both Rob and Dave both lived down the road for awhile.
There is so much footfall in Ranelagh and so many restaurants, bars and activities. I have a saying, "Fish where the fishes are."
Life is a lot easier in town when it's busy. You have got Coldplay playing this weekend for example. Ranelagh is always vibrant and buzzing. Where there are other things going on around you that makes life easier. When we bought in Ballsbridge, we called it the 'Roly's effect' or the 'Roly's hit.' Having things around you, brings more people around.
That said, when we first moved into Blackrock, there was very little activity around there. Gazza (Chef Gareth Smith) opened up a restaurant at the top of the hill and then Daata opened across the road from us. Those two were a huge addition. When you are a stand-alone establishment it is tough.
If you are going for a dinner on a Friday or Saturday night with some friends, you go to the bar across the road for a few drinks, or you go there after. All of a sudden, you have picked up some business that was not there beforehand.
In Ballsbridge, it is a no-brainer, you have got Robbie Williams in the Aviva Stadium or the Horse Show or the Big Grill Festival.
Leinster and football games are being played all the time. There is always something giving you something in Ballsbridge. The RDS is next door. You could be quiet on a Monday night and then BANG!! One hundred people walk in the door after some conference that was on that no one knew about.
Recent reports indicate that younger Irish people such as Gen Z have a different approach around pubs and alcohol intake compared to previous generations. Is this something that you have witnessed?
Yes, I have a daughter who is nearly 15 and she told me the other day, "Dad, I don't think I will ever drink." I thought that was totally cool and I told her that is her prerogative and I support her on it.
Young people are way more health conscious these days. I am trying to drink less myself and I am in the industry! I think that is why it is really important for the industry to support the non-alcohol drinks sector. I think it will continue to grow and that drinking alcohol will be more occasion-driven.
People will still go out and have a drink. The pub has to be more than a place to go drinking. I remember my old bar where I served my apprenticeship, the Blue Haven, unfortunately all the older men that used to drink around the counter are dying off and are not being replaced.
That trend is changing. If you don't adapt your pub to change with the times, you are in trouble.
Has the traditional pint after work changed with more people working from home more often?
Most people have noticed that Thursday is the new Friday. We would definitely encourage more people to get back to the office but we understand that lifestyle as well so you have to be realistic. Maybe it is a good thing. It spreads it out a little. In the past you would be booked out on a Friday now it is more spread out.
With McSorley's, we did a quiz recently which pulled in a lot of young people, 62 teams, the place was packed!
You have to adapt and do more in a pub than just opening the doors. Even in Lemon & Duke, we do tequila classes, cocktail classes. We serve food to a very high standard.
Do you think food is more of a priority for pubs now than a few years ago?
Yes. You have to be reinventing your menu a minimum of two to three times a year. You have to be reinventing your cocktail menu four times a year.
It has to be seasonal, it has to be fresh. Your service has to be really good. You are literally only as good as your last service.
If we got a one star review, we would treat it like a death in the family! It would be like how did this physically happen? There would consternation if that happened.
Everything would be pulled asunder, everything would be analysed from start to finish on how it happened. You try and learn from your mistakes and get better.
You mentioned dropping out of college when you were 17. Tell me more about your background and where you got to where you are now.
I grew up in Rathfarnham and still live there. I went to primary school in Ballyroan Boys School and then I went to St. Mac Dara’s in Templeogue.
When I was 17, I was a solid C student! My dad was a chief superintendent in the Guards, he was a tough but fair man. My family and a couple of their friends had some basic apartments in Fuengirola in Spain.
I was studying Spanish in school and I told him I would love to travel when I finished my Leaving Cert but I was still only 17. I promised to put my head down and get stuck into the Leaving Cert if they would let me go to Spain. We agreed on that.
I travelled off to Spain when I was 17 and I was told there was no jobs when I got there. I bumped into a lovely couple that gave me an interview the next day at 4 O'clock and I became a waiter in Fish Alley restaurant in Fuengirola for the summer and that is when I first got a taste for the industry.
I came back and started a course in Mountjoy Square in Business and Marketing. Honestly, I hated it. I was sitting in buses and feeling like I was back in school.
Within three months I dropped out of college and badgered the general manager of the Blue Haven to give me a job as an apprentice barman. I think my poor dad was horrified by the idea but thankfully it has worked out pretty OK for me.
My employer bought the Revels Bar in Rathfarnham, my best mate Keith has it now, and I was sent to manage it when I was 19.
I went working for the Flynn's as general manager of the Abbey Court Hotel. It was more looking after the bar and nightclub. It was tough but I really enjoyed it.
I learned a lot working with Brendan Flynn. He has the Church now in Jervis Street. He subsequently took over McGowan's in Churchtown. I became operations manager and worked for him for a number of years.
I then went to Richmond Marketing for a year as business developer just to see how the other side worked. Unfortunately, the recession had just started but I stayed there for a year.
I started effectively what I have now from €50,000. I started it off from there.
What do you consider your best business decision so far?
Buying the Bridge in Ballsbridge with the lads, 100%. That has brought us on a huge journey. I had a gut feeling at the time that it was the right move. It has been great.
Look at last weekend, when the Big Grill was on, the American Football. It is a really good area, it's manageable, it is not too big.
Have you had any mentors that have helped you along the way?
My grandad had a shop in Clanbrassil Street and they reckon I got a bit from him.
My first ever job was putting petrol into cars in Knocklyon Road for Joe Barrett in Applegreen. I had a really, really smart manager. He was brilliant. Ciaran was his name. I haven't seen him since but I learned a lot from him. Even just how you leave your shop and presentation. He was an interesting guy.
I have enjoyed working for good managers but Brendan Flynn had the most influence on me.
Do you have a business motto?
Surround yourself with really good people and that comes from Brendan. He said, "If I can't go on two weeks holidays and the place can't run the same without me, then you haven't done your job."
He also said, "I surround myself with smart people and your job is also to surround yourself with smart people."
That is all I have tried to do since and it has worked really well for me.
A report was released this week with some dramatic figures regarding the rate of pub closures in Ireland. What is the main challenges that the sector faces?
I saw that the report. It doesn't surprise me. I think the number will keep declining particularly in rural areas. I think even in the suburbs of Dublin you will see that decline.
The numbers in restaurants has declined rapidly. Restaurants are closing quicker than pubs.
I have never had to work as hard for money in my life. The margins are very, very tight. The minimum wage is too much, too fast. When they put up the minimum wage, they put up everything.
I will give an example, if you go into a supermarket and you want a buy a carton of milk and you go to the checkout, you might not see a person behind the checkout, you might see a machine. Supermarkets can evolve to reduce their staffing costs and technology but that is impossible in technology.
We hope our staff get good tips but there has to be a balancing act where government looks after staff also. I treat my staff like an extension of my family. I want them to do well, I want them to earn well but they also have to be employed in a job. It's no good earning well and then the place goes under.
The government was good to us during Covid but they have tried to do way too much, too quick. The soundbites about VAT are not too good at the moment. They don't understand that 4% can be the difference between whether or not you have profitability.
Profit is not a dirty word, it is a word that should be embraced. The government should want local indigenous businesses of entrepreneurial men and women starting off small business to be profitable.
I think there is a huge disconnect with the government about what the reality is on the ground. They are not in the coalface and seeing the reality of sick pay, pension contributions and everything that goes with running a business. If they went and ran a business themselves they would learn an awful lot.
They always say this costs such and such an amount. What is the cost of not doing it? Is it better to have a situation where the industry is run by chains and you lose small restaurants not to mention the heritage and culture of the city?
The government relies too heavily on international money coming in. They forget too much about Irish hospitality. They have been too flippant about the VAT rate and I don't think they realise how important it is.
Do you think staffing is a challenge for the industry?
No. Not anymore. It was really tough during Covid. It was a disaster. Everyone had to start again really.
A huge amount of the older generation that worked in the sector left it because if you are getting €350 to survive and you have a family, you have to go and get a different job.
So a lot of the older people in the sector have left it and they have got a taste for the weekends off, let's be honest. So we have had to kind of start afresh.
We have a pretty young staff. We pay well, we treat our staff as I said, like an extension of our family. We offer upskilling, internal promotions, they keep their own tips, we offer service charges in a lot of our places.
If you treat your staff well and they speak highly of you, it is easier to find workers. Do we have a good reputation? I don't know. I think we do. I think having a group name helps, it puts it all under one umbrella.
I have never once been taken to the LRC in my entire life and I don't intend to be. I try to treat people fairly. That said, there is no point having good staff and paying them well if you have no premises. It means they will have to go working somewhere else. There are so many establishments closing everywhere.
What makes a great pub?
The staff. If you go into a place with a lovely atmosphere that comes from the staff along with the banter and the craic.
We obviously have a nice aesthetic environment here. It's clean, good music, all the basics. I think hospitality is quite a simple business. You have to get the basics right such as really good staff and good food. Old school stuff works.
We don't spend any money on marketing really. We use social media and stuff but we have an old school motto, "If somebody has a good experience, they will tell other people but if somebody has a bad experience, they will tell even more people!"
So you just make sure that they don't have a bad experience. In the real world, people will have bad experiences but it is how you deal with it that is important.
What are your plans for the future?
I don't know to be honest with you. I never would have thought we would have a chance to buy a pub in Ranelagh in a million years but we did and we have. It is all a bit surreal.
We are planning on growing the business. I am very big on paying down debt. We have certainly gone into a phase now where we have expanded pretty rapidly over the years. It just happens that's the way it was. We had a few bob from the FBD thing, we bought Blackrock, we got the opportunity to buy Little Lemon.
Where you are sitting now used to be a storage room (Lemon & Duke). I don't think I would ever do a fit out of a shell ever again because it was so expensive. We got a really nice result though. It complements Lemon & Duke very well.
My plan now is to pay down debt and consolidate and see what happens next. Never say never in terms of expansion but I don't think we will get too much bigger.
What do the members of Grand Slam Bars first talk about when they are all together, business or rugby?
We never talk about rugby!!
We always have the craic but we don't get together that often.
We had a few drinks the night we got the keys in McSorley's, unfortunately Dave was missing because he was still playing in Chicago. Sean O'Brien is always great craic. Jamie came in, we had a lot of fun. We took a couple of pictures and had a couple of beers. We all texted the next day to say how great it was to get everyone together.
I would see the guys quite a lot individually, I see Rob probably a little bit more. We will be doing the quiz tomorrow night.
We have become friends through business rather than the other way around which is a good way for it to be. We have a good working relationship. I believe in loyalty.
We are very proud of what we have achieved so far. We don't take it lightly, we have around 200 staff which is a huge responsibility.
If people think our bars and restaurants are run really well, that is half of the battle.
